Rising Strong: Resilience, Intention & Integrity with No Knockouts Host Pam Sandrock | Aligned & Abundant Ep. 27

On this episode of Aligned & Abundant, Christine Marcario sits down with Pam Sandrock, founder of No Knockouts Life Coaching & Personal Development and host of the No Knockouts podcast. Pam shares her deeply personal journey of resilience, from a breast cancer diagnosis to reclaiming her life with intention, integrity, and purpose.

Together, they explore the power of rising after being knocked down, embracing your experiences as catalysts for growth, and living intentionally at every stage of life. Pam opens her heart to share how she transformed challenges into life lessons and uses those tools to empower others through coaching, her podcast, and her Do Midlife Well book club.

If you’ve ever faced adversity, felt lost in your emotions, or wondered how to rise stronger after life’s setbacks, this episode is a heartfelt guide to finding your strength, your purpose, and your joy.

What You’ll Learn in This Episode:

• How Pam turned a breast cancer diagnosis into a powerful story of resilience.
• The importance of embracing your experiences without letting them define you.
• Practical tools to cultivate intentionality, alignment, and integrity in daily life.
• How to rise forward, not just bounce back, from life’s challenges.
• The inspiration behind Pam’s podcast, No Knockouts, and her Do Midlife Well book club.
• How to honor your emotions while still reclaiming your power.

Resources & Links:

• Pam Sandrock’s No Knockouts Podcast
• No Knockouts Life Coaching & Personal Development: [Insert link]
• Do Midlife Well Book Club (virtual, ongoing)

Connect with Christine Marcario:

• All things Aligned & Abundant (offers, links, coaching)
• Instagram: @christine.marcario.coach
• Newsletter & Free Resources: Sign up here!

Quote to Inspire You:
"You're knocked down, but you're not knocked out. Commit to rise, commit to climb, and commit to thrive." – Pam Sandrock

Transcript

[00:00:00]

Intro: Welcome to Aligned and Abundant, the podcast where authenticity meets practicality, compassion, alignment, and abundance. I'm your host, Christine Marcario, and I help you slow down, become mindful, improve your mental and emotional health and live life on your highest timeline. Together we'll talk strategy.

Life lessons and share inspiring stories of people who have overcome obstacles, grown through their pain and risen above adversity. If you are looking for divine [00:01:00] inspiration, rooted in love and light paired with practical tools and encouragement. You are in the right place at the right time from one heart to another.

You are an amazing and divine soul with a purpose. Take my hand and let's walk this path together.

Christine: Welcome to another episode of Aligned and Abundant. On today's episode, I have a special guest.

Her name is Pam Sandrock. Pam is the founder of No Knockouts Life Coaching and Personal Development, and the host of the No Knockouts podcast. Her coaching is rooted in resilience, intentionality, integrity, and personal growth. She helps others find their truth and be empowered to live for what they want and for what they're meant to be.

She is committed to living well, not just living and helps you do the [00:02:00] same. She says, you can be knocked down, but you're not knocked out. Commit to rise. Commit to climb, and commit to thrive. Welcome, Pam. I'm so glad to have you on today's episode.

Pam: Thank you, Christine. Hello, and thanks for having me.

It's an honor to be here with you today.

Christine: I couldn't agree more, and I'm so excited to dive into our conversation today. I feel like we have a lot in common in loving the idea of resiliency. I find that it's such a core pillar in my life because let's face it, there are so many times where we get knocked down and there are so many lessons and growth in getting back up.

I would be interested if you would be willing to share one of the most pivotal moments of your life when you felt like you were knocked down and maybe weren't so strong at first, but [00:03:00] then you rose up and developed into these core beliefs of how much resiliency is impactful to your life?

Tell me

about a time that was most impactful for you in regards to resilience.

Pam: Christine, that's a great question and I have a big story to tell about that and I promise to not make it depressing. But I do want it to be impactful for you, for you and your audience. I was 37 years old and I got diagnosed with breast cancer, which was 10 years ago.

It was the hardest time of my life and it was the most impactful time minus having kids, you know, having kids changes your life, especially that first one, it kind of turned your life down a whole different path. Cancer did the same thing, but it didn't carry that same joy and love that having a child does.

I was living a great life at the time. I was healthy. I, was a stay at home mom. I had two young children, my husband and I, I felt like we had a great life. And I was diagnosed with breast cancer, sort of out of the blue. [00:04:00] I didn't have it run in my family. I couldn't find any reason to get it. I looked for people to blame.

I looked for things to blame, and I couldn't find any. And it really put me in a deep hole. Emotionally. Just getting that call changes your life. And for me, it was a phone call. In the car line in the parking lot at pickup, waiting to pick my kids up at school at the end of the day. And I was literally sitting in car line and really just got punched in the gut.

I knew the call would maybe come 'cause I had done the, you know, the mammogram and the biopsy and all of that. So I was in this limbo period and was dreading the call, but I got the news I didn't want and I came home to, my husband actually called him. I called him immediately from Carline and was fighting tears, got my kids, came home and I literally just melted in front of him [00:05:00] and.

I apologized. I mean, obviously I was very scared. I didn't know enough yet. It was just the diagnosis I didn't know. And at this time I was learning so much. But you don't know. There's different kinds of breast cancer and I hate to say one is worse than the other, but, but there are different grades and stages and I didn't know enough to know how good or how bad I had it given the diagnosis.

So there was a lot of unknowns. But getting those words of it is cancer. It's something I don't wish on anybody. It changes you. And I apologize. I was like, I'm sorry because I know this is changing me. I know right now I can never go back to be the same person. And I was happy. We were happy, things were good, and I kind of felt like that was all gonna just go away because I knew it.

I was already changed just in those moments. It, it is a soul stabbing thing. At least it was for me. [00:06:00] And, you know, having to process that at such a young age with two young kids. I had two young elementary school boys who I was having to run out and go make dinner for that same night.

Now, luckily, I had help and all that from my husband, but it's hard to manage life and live in those moments. And so we make it through that. I, go through my surgery and whatever I had to do for, it just lasted a few months. In fact, it was like from February to June and I was done with the physical stuff.

I was cancer free, I was healthy, the doctors were like, go live your life. But I could not go live my life, Christine. I was so emotionally and mentally wounded. I just couldn't recover. Even though I knew on paper everything looked good, all my numbers were good. I had done a double mastectomy.

I had done everything I could to prevent this from never happening again. But I was just so emotionally wounded and I had this new identity that I was forced into. I was forced into [00:07:00] someone who had cancer, and I never saw that happening in my life because I had lived a healthy life on purpose to prevent future problems.

And so I was really knocked down for a long time. I was depressed, I was dark, I was sad. I was in grief. I was mourning my old identity. I was mourning who I was, but I. I was mourning who I used to be, but I didn't know who I was going forward because I didn't like this person who had this label of cancer on her identity.

And I couldn't accept it. I couldn't embrace it. And it took me years. But I finally did, I finally drew a line in the sand one day and said, I do not wanna live like this anymore. I will not live my life upset. And somehow through my own conviction, I basically took absolute personal responsibility for it.

I was like, I'm not gonna be able to wish this away. Nothing's going to change. [00:08:00] This is mine. This is mine to carry. And I shifted my own perspective. At one point it was, I got cancer. Like it was a bad thing, but I shifted it into I got cancer and now I've got to be a person without cancer and now I get to be a person who's had cancer.

I get to be both people. And so I had to accept it as a gift as opposed to it being this detriment in my life, something that's ugly and dark and gray in piercing. I had to accept it as this is a gift to me and I started embracing it as I, do you remember high school letter jackets?

Christine: Yes.

Pam: Okay, so like if you were in band or in sports, you letter, you got to be on varsity, you got this badge.

I took on that badge. I pretended I had a life's letter jacket and I got the cancer badge, and not everybody gets that. And it became a badge of honor, not one that I'm proud of, not one that I often blurt out and talk about. In fact, for years I was very silent about it, but I embraced it as something I [00:09:00] have gotten to do and live through.

And it built resilience because in those months and years I was incredibly low and I felt un resilient even though I was living through it and I looked great on the outside, I pretended I was fine inside. I was not. But learning to embrace my new identity, learning how to be in charge of my mind and choose my perspective, that gave me incredible resilience and power because now I know I can do that in almost any situation.

I can walk into almost any situation and not just see the good, because some situations are really, really bad. But there are ways to see good in it. There are nuggets to take away that aren't all bad. And so that's how I really started to realize my own resilience is my, it's in my mind.

Yes, you have to have a resilient body and that's a whole separate topic. You have a resilient mind, a resilient body, but [00:10:00] embracing the resilient mind in realizing your power is in how you think that changes your life. That changes everything.

Christine: Wow. First of all, thank you for being so vulnerable for sharing that story.

I literally want to cry for you because no one ever wants to get that phone call and no one ever wants to go through that experience. And you know, I feel like when anyone receives that diagnosis, there's no going back. There's a point of no return because you are losing who you were in an essence.

But I also commend you. The fact that you embraced that after the dark night of the soul, after you felt all the feels, because it's almost like you were going through the stages of grieving. You're grieving a life that you thought you were going to have or that you did [00:11:00] have, and you lose yourself for a moment.

And so I wanna commend you on the strength that it took to be the version of who you are today, where you can look back and you can almost have gratitude for what you've been through because it's made you a stronger, better version of who you are today. And that is so powerful when you share this story because it gives people hope.

It shows that resiliency is something that can be embodied. There are so many people that. Unfortunately, get this diagnosis and don't have that second chance at life. And so I just got chills like with

Pam: that. Christine, that's part of it for me. And I'm sorry to interrupt you, but I do wanna make that point I went through a period and honestly, I still have it.

It's like a survivor's guilt. I am [00:12:00] so grateful. I might cry. I am so grateful, but I'm so sad as well. I get to live and there are so many people that don't. I get to have a great life and so part of the way I live my life is to honor what I've been given and honor the people who don't get what I do get.

So my choice to live well is an honor of people I don't even know because. I'm not going to waste this gift I have, I'm not going to waste. All it was is a diagnosis and I got the choice. I had choices in my cancer. I wasn't forced into certain things. I got the choice to get a lumpectomy or not.

And I took the most radical route. I chose to do a mastectomy to, prevent future problems. And so I had choice. But some people don't get that. And so I want to honor the people who don't have choice. I want to honor the [00:13:00] people who don't get to live well. And that's part of the drive for me is to commit to live well for myself and for other people that can't.

And I honor them and they are in my heart every single day. And I can't shake that. It's ingrained in me. I mean, it is a life-changing experience. I would've never thought that when I was diagnosed. Those came in the months and years afterwards. And so. When I say it's life changing, it's life changing in ways that you can't even imagine until you're in it.

So I thank you for your honoring of, me and your gratitude. So thank you.

Christine: Absolutely. Absolutely. Because cancer affects so many people's lives, whether it's directly or indirectly, and that's why it's so important to be aware of how it can change someone's life and hold compassion and space for them again, whether, you know, it's a few months because I hear you.

It never goes away.

Pam: It's a bag I carry, but I gotta be honest, I don't let it weigh me down. It's kind of [00:14:00] like, oh, it's this thing back here. It's always in the back of my mind. But I don't let it be scary because that doesn't serve me at all.

There were years where. I was so afraid of everything. I was scared of my own shadow. Is that gonna give me cancer again? Is this phone call gonna be a doctor? You know, I mean, I was just making up fears and that doesn't serve me at all. So that bag is still there, but I look at it as a badge, not a weight.

I let it empower me, not drag me down. Christine, that doesn't mean I don't get scared. Mm-hmm. And that doesn't mean I don't have my moments. I do because I'm human. But the way I carry that baggage or the way I carry that bag is a choice I make in my mind. And that's what I help other people do through any coaching I do is whatever you're going through, I don't care if it's something small, you know, how do you wanna look at this?

I love that. And so that's what I carry with me.

Christine: Honestly, [00:15:00] I'm almost speechless because it's just such a beautiful way. To honor yourself and to honor your experience and to take that with you and not focus on the baggage. Because yes, the baggage will be there, the fear will be there, but to not let it be in the driver's seat, you know?

Pam: Yeah. And I think this is something that anybody can take with them. My example is breast cancer, but someone who goes through a divorce, you know, I think people walk around and they think they have a big capital D painted on their forehead, and that's just not the case, you know? But we get these badges or someone who goes through abuse or addiction or alcoholism, they are big bags and big weights.

And although I don't have those, I think I can somewhat relate in some way. And I think it's how you look at it. Can you use what you've been through to empower you, not bring you down? That is a choice that I didn't know I had 10 9, 8, 7 years ago, I didn't [00:16:00] realize I had that choice.

That is something I learned and I like to help other people with that.

Christine: So tell me, how do you use this experience and these tools that you have added to your toolbox through life and experience? Walk me through how this applies to your coaching, because honestly it sounds like it would be such a beneficial experience to work with you,

Pam: Christine.

It's like a fire burning inside of me. It's not something I think about and like define or have to define. I am rooted in this now. I am rooted in living well. I am rooted in bouncing back or bouncing forward. 'cause sometimes you can't bounce back to what the way you were. Sometimes you bounce in a different direction, which I did.

I'm still the same person. It's just my mind, my mental state is different. It's rooted in me to always be a comeback story, to just stay strong. And that doesn't mean you always are. There are [00:17:00] many, many, many, many, many times where I am still low and sad and down. But I also know I'm committed to rise.

I know I'm gonna come back and I take that time to cry. I take that time to pout. I take that time to feel sorry for myself and give myself my own pity party. I allow that to happen now because I know I'm gonna get out of it. I know I'm gonna come back. So instead of it being scary to be sad, instead of it being intimidating or scary to be at your low, I allow myself to have it, because I know I'm coming back.

I know I'm gonna bounce out of this. I'm gonna know, I'm gonna bounce forward. And I have that intention. And I think when I coach myself and anybody else, or even just my kids, even my own family, I always bring intention into it. Whether that's a word I use or not. What's the goal here?

What's your intention? And intentionality just gives us a place to aim. And I like to aim high and I like for other people to aim high. And [00:18:00] not everybody's highs are the same, right? Sometimes high is I just need to get outta bed. Okay. And that's real high sometimes, but other times high might be, I'm gonna have a million dollar year.

You know, but you gotta have a place to aim. It's not just wandering and hoping and wishing. Hoping and wishing is great, and sometimes that's all you have is a hope. But hope can be very powerless. You have to have the intention and the action behind it. And that's where I think I, I have a lot of practice at that.

And so I think I'm good at helping other people do that. So it's the commitment to rise, which is being resilient and having the intention of how you want to live your life. How do you wanna show up? Who do you want to be? This isn't by default, you get to choose this. So intentionality is something I always bring into my coaching because it's how I live my life.

And then integrity. And when I say integrity, I really mean in alignment what you want [00:19:00] on your inside. You need to align that with the way you speak. And the way you think, the way you think, the way you speak, and the way you feel. If you can align all of those, then you're living in alignment. And when you are in alignment, you are in your most powerful state.

You are incredibly powerful when you are who you truly are. And when you're in that powerful state, you're also incredibly resilient. You're strong. So to me, the base level is being in integrity and being in alignment because that gives you power to be intentional and it gives you power to be resilient.

Does that clear? Does that make sense?

Christine: So many good things that you are bringing to our awareness. First of all, I love that you keep hitting upon the fact that we all have choice because we do. And I. Respect also that you are allowing yourself to feel the feels. I [00:20:00] just gave myself a moment last night where I was frustrated and I was angry, and I'm not much of a crier in terms of letting things go for myself, but sometimes you just have to because we are an emotional human being and we have to let these emotions out so that we can almost clear the drawing board and get back up because like you, I have the same mindset of I will always rise no matter how dark, how low, how depressed or sad or angry I'm feeling.

I know in my heart and soul that I will pick myself back up and again, that's why resiliency is such a key word that I. Believe in, in my life. And that I love to see in other people because again, like life is challenging. There are challenges and there are some that you can bounce back from easily.

And there are some that take [00:21:00] years to bounce back from, but at the end of the day, you are the one that will pick yourself up. So it's just so important to remind anyone who's listening to this that even on your darkest days, there is light at the end of the tunnel. Like they say, you just have to allow yourself the space to see it.

And so when you speak of getting into alignment, I love what you're saying in terms of getting your mind, your words and your heart and your energy into alignment into the same direction so that you can make progress and experience growth. Because after all, we're here to learn and to grow and to experience.

The good, the bad, the ugly, and rise from all of those experiences. And I also adore that you've taken this life experience that may have knocked you down momentarily, but you are now using it as a catalyst for change. You are [00:22:00] using it to help other people, to inspire others. And it's like when someone is down in a hole and you put your hand out and you say, let me help you up.

Mm-hmm. Let me help you rise. Let me hold space for you. And so I wanna commend you on taking all that you have through, and now you're giving back to others in such a beautiful, transformational way. And we need more people like you out there in the world doing service.

Pam: Thanks, Christine. I can speak back to the days when I was kind of working through my cancer.

I was so overwhelmed with emotion and decisions. Let, let's be clear here. You gotta go to the doctor real fast. You gotta see lots of doctors, all different kinds. They're giving you advice, you have decisions to make, you gotta still deal with your family and life. It's incredibly stressful and hard.

And so there's a lot, and I don't wanna [00:23:00] downplay any of that, but I don't wanna say that my emotions were the only thing. There were other things in this too, you know, like managing the, the life. But I was so overwhelmed. I would go and jot down thoughts.

I didn't call it journaling because I wouldn't go and like answer a prompt. I would just literally write down words or phrases or thoughts that I had at the time, and I didn't know why I was doing it. For me, it was relief. I would run and go write. Teamwork I remember writing teamwork.

'cause I felt like my doctors were part of my team. I had me and I had my husband and my mom and I had this team of doctors. And I felt like we as a team were gonna get through this. It wasn't just me. And, uh I'm forever, grateful for all of that.

I would jot down words and one of the things that I wrote down was, you're not knocked out. You're not knocked out. And I, somehow for rephrase that again and said, you're knocked down, but you're not knocked out. You like it did it more than once, but it came down to [00:24:00] you're knocked down but you're not knocked out.

And at some point I. Really made a promise or a commitment to not waste this experience. I was not gonna move forward through life and let this be a thing that just went to the past. Now, I don't let it be something that defines me in a heavy way. Like it's not this identity of, oh, I've had cancer. I am not proud of it.

I do not like it. I wish it would've never happened, but because it did, I need to use that energy towards something. And that's how I've channeled it into helping other people. I have committed to help other people. Why? Because I can, and because I have this experience and I have this knowledge and I've gotten coach training and done all the things, I can combine that.

And even if I help just one person, then I've won. Then I've won because not everybody wants help. I may not be for everybody. Some people may not like me. Maybe they don't like how I talk or how I look or my tone, and that [00:25:00] is okay. But if I can help you or anybody else, then I'm happy to do that and I want to do that.

'cause then I know I'm not wasting the hardship that I went through. So I do feel like in, in a way, this is a God-given gift. Again, I'm not happy I went through it, but I am better for it. I could have never got to this point today. I could never be talking to you today, Christine, if I would not have gone through this.

And so. To me, I made a commitment years ago to rise, so every time I'm in my low and I know I can rely on that commitment. My low doesn't last as long. My state of sadness or scarcity or fear, it just doesn't last as long because I know I can rely on myself to get out of it. And honestly, there's tools.

I mean, it's not just a mindset. It is. But like I run, I sometimes go for a walk or I go run. I basically get outside and a lot of people take baths. I take a shower, I sit in the shower, water changes us, and just [00:26:00] having that water run over me and sometimes it is cry in the shower. It is a release like you were talking about.

Sometimes you just have to let it out. That's the way I do it. I cry in the shower sometimes, and that's a healthy thing, not a bad thing.

Christine: Oh yeah. One of my biggest mentors told me, that crying, she actually kind of like puts it on her schedule weekly because it's an emotional release. It makes space for other things and it allows you the opportunity to almost cleanse, like, cleanse the system, you know, let it out.

And so that's just something that I think is very beautiful. You know, we have to realize that being hard or not allowing our emotions to pass through doesn't make us any stronger. In fact, it's probably the opposite. When we allow ourselves to feel the things, you know, we are processing them and in turn we are healing ourselves.

And then in turn we're healing others who get to witness that or just [00:27:00] experience, the benefits of us being more regulated and more heartfelt.

Pam: I have a story that I think might help tie some of this together. It, it makes me feel good to tell it, but back in, I wanna say first grade, I was probably six years old.

My grandparents were over at our house and they were leaving. We were standing outside. They were gonna get in our car, and I don't remember who asked me, but somebody asked me, what do you wanna be when you grow up? And at the time I said, I wanna be a veterinarian, because my grandfather was a veterinarian.

So it was very, it was exposed to it. I liked it. So my whole childhood, I grew up saying I wanted to be a veterinarian. But then in high school, do you remember taking, we took ASVAB tests. I don't know, I think that's what it was called. But it was like a career, you know, pick your career kind of thing. What are you gonna be good at?

It was in high school and that was up there on the list. It was like number two or three though. My number one was something in the psychological field. And so I really spent some time with that and I was like, [00:28:00] oh, I think that's a sign. I wanna be a high school counselor. I don't wanna be a veterinarian, I wanna be a high school counselor.

And that was really all the psychological field I was exposed to. I didn't know there were other things in that arena at the time. So that's what I picked because it aligned. And so I went to college and started my college education in psychology. And I changed it after a semester. Not 'cause I didn't like psychology, 'cause I did, I had one class and I changed my major to biomedical science because I was like, no, I really do wanna be a veterinarian.

I really do. So I go back and forth and this is a common thing. So I graduated with a biomedical science degree and went to work, not in that field. Didn't even apply to vet school 'cause I was done with school and I just wanted to go to work and went through life, you know, went through work, I worked before I had kids and I had kids and I stayed at home.

And then in about 2020, after my diagnosis, four or five years after my diagnosis, I [00:29:00] started getting this feeling of like, I really still like psychology. And again, i'm in my early forties at this point. And I'm like, it just keeps coming back to me. And I started looking up like, how do you get a psychology degree?

What other things? Like I started just messing around on Google, you know, didn't have a plan, but I just started doing some searching and life coaching stuff. Eventually started being fed to me. You know how the algorithm feed you stuff after you do searches? Yes. So life coaching stuff came up and I was like, what is this?

What is this? And it was like a light bulb moment at some point where I was like, oh my gosh, it has all come full circle. I know I wanna do this. So I had this like. Time from high school where I was like, I really do like the psychological stuff. And it always kind of like festered inside of me, but I had no place to put it.

And then I had this whole experience, this massive bucket of cancer experience and knowledge and wisdom and [00:30:00] energy. It was full of energy. And I was like, oh my gosh, that's what I need to be doing. I have to combine those two. And so the combination of my cancer experience and everything I learned from that and just life, Christine, we all have life's experience and wisdom and then life coach training and experience with that.

I put all that together. That's how I got to where I am today and that's what I use to push me forward. And I think this goes back to intuition, and I know you do a lot of coaching on this. Follow your gut and follow your intuition. I should have stayed with like, no, I'm not gonna say should. I'm not gonna say should.

My path is great. But there is something to be said for listening to your gut and following your intuition. I talked myself out of it in college, out of logic.

Christine: Yeah.

Pam: I talked, I used my brain, not my gut because at the time I was like, that makes more sense. And while it made more sense, look at me now I'm back in the psychological field in some [00:31:00] fashion.

So, my message is really listen to yourself. And I know you speak on that all the time and can relate.

Christine: Totally. And it's funny because. When you look back, sometimes you're like, oh, I should, but it's like, really? You could have, but you chose a different path, and that's perfectly fine because I think we all go through that.

That's the beauty of life, you know? We have the opportunity to reflect, but we don't live in the past. We have to move forward and we have to be in the present and just be grateful like you just did. You turned that beautifully around where you started to, should yourself, and then you said, you know what?

I'm grateful for that experience and the choices that I made because it led me here. So I wanna touch upon that Also. Tell me about your podcast. You launched your own podcast, no knockouts. How did you go from where you were to having that idea that you wanted to get your voice out there through this platform?

Pam: It's multiple things. I've thought for several years. I wanted to do it, but I never could commit. I got stuck in the, I don't know [00:32:00] how. It seems like a lot of work. It's too scary. What if people don't like me? I'm gonna be judged, you know, all the things. And for about two or three years, I started collecting content and coming up with episode ideas.

I'm have no shortage of that. And this year I just got to the point, I'm like, come on already. Let's either just do it or not. And it became, I'm doing it. I'm committing. And I started in May. And it, it doesn't mean I wasn't scared or fearful or knew exactly what I was doing. I did it anyway. I moved before I was ready.

I did it even though it felt cringey. I wasn't completely comfortable, but I did it anyway because that's how you grow. You're not always gonna be ready, you're not always gonna be comfortable. And I made that conscious decision. Committed to doing it, even though I didn't feel ready or comfortable and it in a very short time, I became comfortable and I learned more.

And so I do. I wish I would've done it sooner. No, it was the perfect time because I needed to go through all [00:33:00] that to get to the point of hitting, publish. But my podcast is so much fun. It's incredibly rewarding, as you know, it's a lot of work, but it's also rewarding and it's a way for me to express myself and hopefully reach listeners who might wanna hear what I have to say.

And Christine, it's great 'cause I get to meet people like you. I get to meet other people who do the same thing and we get to sit and have conversations. How fun is this? If I could have like dreamed up a life where I say I get to sit and talk to somebody, uh, I'm in.

And I wanna do that. I mean, do you agree?

Christine: No, that's what I was gonna say. It is so much fun. When I describe podcasting to anyone, I am just having so much fun and you get to meet with so many different people. And I love talking to different people, but I also love talking to people in different countries, you know, like how cool is that?

Like to have a friend in Australia who's 14 hours ahead, it's like a mind trip [00:34:00] as far as like, you know, just thinking about it. But it's also so cool just to hear about other people's experiences. And I almost compare it to like reading a book. Do you know what I mean? Like you're getting to experience and chat with people that you wouldn't normally have that opportunity to do so through this platform.

And one thing that I think is so powerful, for example, Ann Frank, when she wrote her diary, she didn't know what was going to happen. She didn't. Know how it was going to be such an impactful book of her journey, of her life, of her inner thoughts and feelings. And that's what I kind of love about podcasting is because it's a legacy that you're creating for anyone who wants to hear your voice.

I recently was listening to a podcast and it was about a man who had a mother whose mother lived during World War II and the Holocaust, and she had given him to a [00:35:00] family to keep him safe for about two months. And during that time, she journaled and she gave him the journal, but he was too afraid to open it because he had abandonment issues based off of that.

And before she passed away, she made him open the journal and read it with her. Mm. And it was just so amazing. Because he was able to go inside of her thoughts and her feelings and her reasons for wanting to keep him safe. Like at the heart, she just wanted to protect her baby.

Pam: Yeah.

Christine: And so it's almost like podcasting in a way has become a way in which your voice can carry on because it's not like it goes away.

I mean, it could be around forever. And if you were to knock on wood pass away tomorrow, you know, my kids would be [00:36:00] able to have my voice. They would be able to hear my thoughts and reflections of the world. And while I don't wanna be morbid, it's just something that's kind of cool to know that your voice is out there.

And I recently, a fun fact too, I was in, Buzzsprout and I was looking at the impact, and I have people listening in India. Asia. And I was like, what? I was like, that is so cool, you know, to know that your voice is being heard around the world. And if this impacts even one person, that's always the goal, right?

One person. And if it's more, that's just bonus. Mm-hmm. So it really is a cool way to

Pam: Yeah, I agree. I have a regular listener, I think in Germany, so if you're listening to this. Hello. Love it. I don't know this person, but I do have listeners everywhere and I think that's cool.

I also, this is background, but I did put this out there. I did start my podcast for Legacy because like you said, God forbid, my voice lives on. [00:37:00]

Christine: How didn't know that? That's so cool that I hit upon that.

Pam: Yeah. In fact, I have notes on it, it's a note I jotted down when I was reasoning through all of it.

It's legacy and it's not for me, I am getting massive benefit from this because I'm having so much fun talking to you, talking to other people, doing it myself. That's for me, but it's for other people. And I may never know who they are. I may never meet them or they may be the closest people to me and it may be years down the road.

But I did this for my own legacy so my voice can live on if need be and I may not have, not that I have the greatest things to say at all the times, but somebody may wanna hear something I say. And so that is a huge part of it for me. So we connected right there and we didn't even know we were gonna.

Christine: Exactly. I love that. That's a beautiful synchronicity right there. Mm-hmm.

Pam: Mm-hmm.

Christine: Tell me a little bit about your do midlife Well book club.

Pam: I have started a book club a few months ago. I started it in September and it's called Do [00:38:00] Midlife. Well, both of my children are off at college now, so my husband and I are empty nesters.

So I feel like I'm going through this transition and, I planned for this. I attended workshops and read books ahead of time, so I didn't just walk into empty nesting. Without knowledge. And so I've done some research and done all the things ahead of time that I know to do and prepare mentally come up with a game plan.

And I thought, why not do this with other people? There's plenty of other people who want to live the middle part of their life. Well, I don't wanna just live. I don't wanna be like, oh, my kids are at school and it's just my husband and I and we're bored and the house is quiet and we're sad and I don't want that.

I wanna thrive in every stage of my life. And again, that's a choice. We could just sit here and stare at each other in the tv, but we're not gonna, and so I've made a conscious decision. To bring intentionality to this stage of my life. And I just wanna do that with other women if they wanna do it with [00:39:00] me.

You know, it's a very passive thing. We're doing a book club. I'm doing some coaching intermittently between it, so it's coaching and reading and discussion and community. And so if anybody's interested in joining the do Midlife well book club, it's ongoing. So it's gonna be an ongoing thing so you can join at any time.

It's, fun and rewarding and the best part about it is the community because we're with other people going through the same thing. And it doesn't necessarily have to be empty nesting, it's just someone who wants to do the middle part of their life well and wants to bring intention to it. And honestly, we're all in different stages and we're all very different people.

So you apply to you what you need to apply, but it's great to discuss it with other people.

Christine: Is this held

virtually?

Pam: I do it on Zoom. Anyone from anywhere can join. We do it on Zoom right now. We're meeting weekly. It's gonna go down, at some point, probably after the turn of the year, but we're meeting weekly right now to not discuss the book every week, but do some intermittent coaching in between.

It's a ton of fun.

Christine: I love that. And you know what I was thinking, do you know when [00:40:00] you are pregnant and you get one of those books that kind of guide you through, like, you know, now the baby is the size of the cantaloupe. I never really thought like, yeah, I should prepare for midlife, I should prepare for the transition.

Because you wanna go into things with tools. You want to go in with knowledge, because like you said, at least for me, yeah. I don't wanna be stuck in front of the TV thinking about all the things that happened in the past. You know, I wanna be ready.

Pam: I coach on that a little bit and we talk about it because we plan for the early part of our life.

Like go back to when you're in high school or even elementary, you dream about having a spouse and you dream about how many kids you're gonna have and what your house is gonna look like. And you know, you dream about your young life and then at some point in your life you start to plan for your late years.

You plan for retirement, you plan, a lot of people plan their own funeral. You know, you buy your plot or your casket [00:41:00] or whatever ahead of time. I'm serious, you know, you know, you plan the end of your life, but nobody dreams or plans about like, Hey, I can't wait till I'm 50. You know, nobody says, Ooh, when I'm in my forties, this is how life is gonna go.

You know? We don't dream about our forties and fifties and sixties. They just kind of appear because we're so busy we don't plan for them. We don't look forward to them, you know, because there's no time to look forward to it, you know? And so I think I bring, about an awareness to this stage of life and we begin to dream again.

And that's what I open up within this group. We know, we plan for our twenties and we know we're gonna plan for our late years, but let's plan and dream here in this middle stage. What do we wanna do with this part of our life? And what I'm noticing and what I know is a lot of people don't know how to dream.

And I was once that way. I had stopped dreaming for years because I was doing life. I was consumed with myself, I was consumed with [00:42:00] my kids, my husband, our life. But now I have space to dream and I challenge women to do that. And I'm able to teach them and coach them. I call it opening a dream. We open a dream or, and, and sometimes that feels strange when you first do it because it feels selfish.

You're like, oh no, I can't dream. I can't want anything. For me, I'm here for everybody else. And that's just bs. You exist too. And I exist too. And so we have to allow for our own existence and allow us to wake up and dream again. And that's part of the process that I walk people through just in the Doo midlife Well book club.

It's, it's expansive, I'll put it that way. It's both relieving and expansive. It's relieving to have other people to talk to who are going through the same stage of life. Some of the same challenges. You know, we're all, at this point in life, we're facing perimenopause or menopause. We have all these health challenges that come up that none of us really want, but [00:43:00] they're there.

And so we're going through health and body changes, not just transitioning. To empty nesting. You know, there's people who are choosing divorce at this stage of life. There are people who are just now getting health challenges. There are people who are having to care for their parents. And so it's a very challenging time of life.

So it feels like there's no room to dream and think about yourself, but that's just not true. And we do a lot of that.

Christine: That's so amazing. And you know, I hear that so many people, or so many women also have such awareness and awakenings around the midlife around forties, fifties. Like I have heard some women say that they feel like they've just started to live at 40 because you are getting over the hump of, you know, getting married, finding the one, having the kids, finishing your college, starting your business, all of that.

And I love that you used the word consume because it raises such [00:44:00] awareness that we do, we get so consumed with all the things that we forget how to dream. And as a child, dreaming, using your imagination was a tool that we used constantly. And to go back to that is to bring yourself back to the childlike wonder Absolutely.

Of your life. And I find that so valuable. I love what you're doing. I love what you're doing for others. And in that you're also getting the gift of community and conversation and comradery. And so that sounds like such a powerful, powerful community.

Pam: Well, I think it is because I, and you raised awareness to this, it's like we're reawakening.

This part of our life. And if we're, if the space doesn't exist, we're making space for it because we're realizing it's my turn. I've given myself to so many people for so [00:45:00] long. I need to take a little space for myself. And some people wanna take a lot of space for themselves.

It's personal, but it's a time to awaken yourself and realize I've got more to live. I've got more to offer, I've got more to consume, I've got more to provide. You know, there is more of me in here than I realized, and we wake that up and try to turn it inside out. I feel like a flower like turning inside out and blooming.

And that's what I try to do with the women in my group. We try to turn inside out and bloom. We come out of our shells would be a way to put that as well.

Christine: Where can people sign up for your do midlife? Well book club.

Pam: It's at no knockouts.com/do midlife. Well, it's also in my Instagram and on my website. So you can go to at no knockouts on Instagram and there's a link there, or go to the link@nokknockouts.com slash do midlife.

Well, it's just a real quick signup

Christine: and I'm also going to put it into the show [00:46:00] notes, so no work there if anyone wants to, and I would highly recommend jumping on this you have already shared so much, but if you were to leave the listeners with. One or two golden nuggets. What would you like to share? What is on your heart to share?

Pam: Gosh, I have a lot to share. You want me to narrow it down?

Let's see here. Tell me everything. Obviously, forget, forget the narrowing down. Yeah, yeah. Obviously the very first thing is if you get knocked down, you're not knocked out. Just use that as a mantra. Ingrain that in your daily life. Just know that when you're down, you're gonna come back.

You're gonna commit to rise, you're gonna commit to climb, and you're gonna commit to thrive. So ingrain that as a mantra that you live by. That's what I call a no knockouts life. But secondly, your mind is your most powerful tool. Yeah, and we train our bodies, we lift weights, we maybe exercise or whatever we do.

We train our bodies, but we need to train our minds too. [00:47:00] It's not about just going through life being an autopilot, living day to day. You have to make a conscious and intentional choice to live better. And I just wanna encourage everyone to take that challenge and make that choice. Because when you can train your mind, whether it be through reading on your own, or listening to a podcast, or hiring a coach, or going to a therapist, anything that you can do to improve your mind, your life will improve.

That's probably my bottom line for today, Christine, is your mind is your most powerful tool. So train it.

Christine: And I think that's such a beautiful takeaway. I myself, only this year. Hired a coach and joined a coaching community and now I have a lot of coaches in my life and each one serves a different purpose.

And the amount of growth that I have personally had since I started this journey in February of this [00:48:00] year is like monumental. Like, yes, I am still the same person at the core, but I am also so changed and I honestly have my coaches to thank because it is, there's so much mindset work when you change your mind, you change your life.

If you are where I was last year, getting up every day and doing the commute and just going through the day and just almost in survival mode. You know, enjoying the glimmers as they came, but not really fully living in my authentic. Self in the highest version of myself that I get to do now, which is having these amazing conversations and coaching people and getting to see them make progress.

I would highly recommend it. And it's funny, you know, I'm in my forties, so it's like, again, I'm allowing myself that opportunity. I'm allowing myself to pivot, to explore, [00:49:00] to use my imagination again, and to really dream big, because why not? At the end of the day, every day counts. Every moment counts. And the impact that we have on other people is just bonus.

When you can wake up and feel good about your day and wake up with gratitude in your heart and go to bed feeling like you led an authentic life in the best way that you could with the cards that you were dealt, that's a beautiful life right there. And I wanna also say, when you're giving to yourself.

You can give more to others because you're more whole, you are more, your cup is more filled and it's hard to give from an empty cup. So it's just so important, the value of doing something for yourself, whether it's hiring a coach or joining a book club, anything that allows you the space, the opportunity to grow and expand as [00:50:00] a human being, as an individual.

It's just so amazing.

Pam: A hundred percent. And I wanna add something to that about the coaching. You and I are in one of the same circles. We have a mentor in common and we get this presented to us, and I know we do this for our own clients. Sometimes you don't have the belief that you can do something, but a coach can see that.

You can, they can carry a belief because a coach is impartial. They don't have the same limitations that you have. And a coach allows you to borrow their belief and that gives you the opportunity to move forward when you don't have the belief in yourself. And so I think that we can see through, as a coach, we can mirror back what someone is presenting to us, but we can also see things in people that they have limited within themselves and talk them into betterment because we know they can do it.

Just like our coach believes in us that we can do things [00:51:00] that we don't think we can. And so it is, again, back to mindset and belief systems. But having someone healthily in your mental mind, having someone on your team is invaluable in my opinion.

Christine: Yeah.

Pam: It's invaluable.

Christine: You nailed it there. And also having a coach forces you out of your comfort zone because the current coach that I'm working with, gives us challenges. And so I liked to be the a student. I'm going to force myself out of my comfort zone to have the conversation, to extend the offer, to invite you into my coaching world because I want to succeed.

And so my coach knows, and she always reminds us that we are so much more capable. And so when she mirrors that back to us, then you can start to believe it and see it for yourself. And then when you are gently. [00:52:00] Coerced into doing things that are pushing your nervous system. And then on the other side you're like, oh, that wasn't so bad.

Oh, I can do that again. And it just instills this belief in you and it just, it's like a muscle. It just builds and builds and builds.

Pam: Well, I think you have to open up your mind to possibility too. And I think a coach will do that for you. A coach will give you a possibility to see that you couldn't see before, and you have to be open to that.

So the amount of growth that you can have with a coach is limitless because possibilities exist that you can't even fathom. And if someone else presents it to you, it can become a challenge. And immediately we're gonna say, oh, I can't do that. But that's just not true. You can do so much more than you think you can.

And so our limits are really ourselves and our brains, and that's where we work. We work in the mind.

Christine: Because the mind wants to keep you safe. So anything that is going to pose uncertainty or unknown, the brain is going to be like, no, we can't do that. I [00:53:00] can't afford it. I don't have time. Why should I give this to myself?

We're going to come up with all of the reasons, and then we're going to easily believe them because it's just easier instead of, you know, wanting and finding a way to make it happen. Do you know what I mean? Of course, with anything in life, real talk things cost money, right? In particular, the coach that we have in common, you that cost money, you know?

On the other end, like I said before, look where I'm at. Look at the growth I've had. You know, my family can say, you are a better version of yourself. You are so much happier. You are so much more of yourself. And you can't put a price tag on that.

Christine: Yeah.

You just can't. And so you find a way.

And, and I do believe in divine timing. You know, I do believe in that. And if it's not meant to happen right now, you can set the intention to call in the right [00:54:00] timing and the right person, like you said before. And I believe too, I don't wanna just coach anybody. I wanna coach someone who I feel in alignment with, who I can have a connection with, who I could hold possibility for, who I can see their potential.

And so that's why it's important to have, a conversation and to make sure that we are in energetic alignment, because my job is not done unless I see you growing and changing and, feeling like you have gotten a lot out of our time together. That's very, very important. You don't wanna go to a, salesman and buy a car.

You know, you pull off the lot and it dies,

Pam: you know? Yeah. You

Christine: wanna get what you pay for.

Pam: Yeah. You want the value to be there, and you want the person to get results.

Christine: 100%.

Pam: No fluff. There's no fluff. It's all about the results.

Christine: Pam, I wanna thank you so much for your time. This was such a [00:55:00] beautiful conversation, and honestly, I am going to reflect on this conversation because you made me cry and I hold so much compassion for the things that you have been through and that you have bounced back from, and just the fact that you have taken that life experience and you are using it as a catalyst for change in other people's lives.

You have no idea the impact that you have made upon me today, and I'm sure that you make upon the women that you come into contact with in regards to who is listening. To your messaging and who is joining your book club because wow, you are just doing such an amazing job at life, girl.

Pam: Thanks, Christine.

You know, I don't want anybody to feel sorry for me. I don't want any pity, I wouldn't wanna give that to anybody else. I do appreciate the compassion, but I really want to use whatever energy and turn it into [00:56:00] good. And so if someone hears this today, please don't feel sorry for me. I don't want the pity. I want you to use my power and make your life better.

Please take that energy and do something with it for yourself. And if I can be of any service to you or Christine can be of any service to you, we are here for you.

Christine: And I honor that so much because I have heard stories of, people just to end on this note, people that are in a wheelchair, they don't want the pity, they wanna be treated like a human being.

They wanna be treated as. Normal, you know? Yeah. So I feel you on that and I appreciate you saying that and I honor what you're sharing. Thank you. So thank you so much, Pam. This has been, thank you. Such a wonderful conversation and you truly are a blessing.

Pam: I appreciate it. And Christine, you are great to sit and talk with.

This is healthy for me and I hope our listeners have fun, and I appreciate your time and your energy that you bring. You were great. Thank you so much.

[00:57:00]